popped up on the horizon. i was an editor at the time and my reporter went out and basically just by paying on people, these wiley brothers came forward. had no responsibility to disclose this 527. within a few months congress actually passed -- mccain pushed come because back in the days when mccain cared about campaign finance reform, mccain pushed and congress passed legislation that's still on the books that requires 527 groups that are operating outside of regular political committees, to disclose their campaign spending and the nation's. that happened within the election cycle, as i recall. our capacity to respond in the same election cycle or even in anticipation of the next election cycle seems to me in response to a similar scandal to be vastly reduced. >> i probably should at this point in the spirit of full
disclosure explain my cameo in the 1996 clinton fund-raising scandals. in 1997 republicans were investigating -- and fred thompson had the committee -- and i got a call monday from an investigative reporter at "the boston globe" who also happen to be a friend of mine who said i want to know why you attended one of the clinton fund-raising coffees and why didn't disclose that to your readers at "the wall street journal." i said, what are you talking about? of course i didn't go to the clinton fund-raising coffee, and he says, well, i think a document that says you did. it turned out later that what happened was the white house databases got kind of screwed up because there's a john harwood who worked for "the wall street journal," and there was a john harwood who was a speaker the house in rhode island who later went to prison for corruption. and these things get merged -- >> i actually know that john harwood. >> and these things get merged,
so he wrote in the paper the next day that i denied having attended -- >> although he actually did not go to prison for corruption. there were a bunch of other people who did. >> okay. >> christine has a question from our webcast audience. >> thanks. can the panel talk that any differences, if there are any, between sort of the established billionaires, the sheldon adelson's of the world and what not, with the emerging moneyed elite coming out of silicon valley, mark zuckerberg's of the world speak with the emerging elite is going to be a lot more reflective of the young -- younger generation in terms of being socially liberal. i think generally speaking it's going to be a more democratic group, or at least more democratic on a certain set of issues than the older money group that we're talking about spent more libertarian, more socially liberal. more marriage equality, more
probably reproductive rights, more -- well, you see it in tom stier, focus on environmental climate change issues. >> the other aspect of that is interesting is what happens when the current billionaires start passing away, like what happens to their money. a number of these people are pretty conservative in their views. they often have children or grandchildren who do not share their viewpoint. we actually have had an interesting example of this. the late harold simmons was a dallas billionaire who passed away last year, some of his fortune has gone to two daughters have supported hillary clinton. they support of barack obama and the superb reproductive rights. harold simmons himself said barack obama was the most dangerous man in america because of the threat to the free enterprise system. i'm not sure how he feels about what his daughters are going to be doing with his money. tom, do you have a question? weight. we have the microphone coming up to you.
>> one comment about this sort of parties versus the outside groups. i think it really mischaracterizes how our politics have evolved. if you look carefully at the parties and how involved they are, it's strategically and every other way in elections, especially the swing elections. they have never been as influential today as they've been. even most of the really big and influential superbikes are informally attached to the parties -- super pacs, so we really do have too big team operations and all of the emphasis on what's the chamber doing with in the republican party to support the establishment is a pittance of what's really going on. the parties are ideologically
polarized. they are finding -- finding their allies among billionaires and others, and that's where the game is, and having the money come directly to them probably not make much of a difference electorally, but it might make the donors a little more influential than they are right now. picking up on the last thing, darrell, we now have a movement among some billionaires, a campaign to give back half. and i'm just curious, outside the immediate political arena, what can you say about what's happening in the billionaire community? i mean, beyond referendums, interesting big issues, but other things that might come closer to public goods? >> i mean, a number of billionaires that i've looked at are actually very forward looking in their policy agenda. like, they're kind of thinking
down the road in terms of robotics and what kind of social impact that's going to have, kind of off shore communities. peter thiel is a libertarian who has been big on that. there's research on stem cell research. these are individuals who are very visionary. that's in large part how they make their money. they saw something that was not happen. they found a niche and ended up making money on it. so into philanthropy they're kind of thinking long-term and exactly the same sort of way. as you point out, bill gates and warren buffett have proposed giving a pledge in which billionaires give away at least half of their money during their lifetime. so they are 1600 billionaires around the world. slightly less than 10% have actually signed up for that to many of them are in the united states. there hasn't been that much interest outside the united states. i know the actual to china to try to sign chinese billionaires for the giving pledge, had a big
dinner. at the end of the dinner, nobody signed up. but we do have a very interesting case. ali baba just went public this week. jack ma, the leader behind the firm, is actually starting to do some philanthropy inside china. he's worried about air pollution from andy's focus very much on the environment. of course he's cognizant of kind of billionaire activism. it can get you in trouble in your home government. so he keeps telling government official i want to work with you. like, i'm not working against you on this issue. something there are lots of interesting things going on in this area. we are out of time but i want to thank our panelists, peter, ruth, john and brody, i think your comments really added a lot and really push you learned your insights. for those of you what books, we have them out in the hallway. so thank you very much for coming. [applause]
>> every weekend booktv offers programming focus on nonfiction authors and books. keep watching for more to c-span2 and watch any of our past programs online at booktv.org. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> welcome to boulder, colorado, on booktv. located at the foothills of the rocky mountains. boulder is to see the older county and its most populated city with 100,000 residents. known for to beautiful scenery and outdoor recreation, boulder was originally settled by gold
seekers in 1850s. in 1898 he came home of the colorado chautauqua, one of only three remaining in the country. with help of our comcast cable partners, we will explore its history and literary scene with local authors. we begin our special feature on board with david baron on the increase of mountain lions in suburban populations. >> this is a site few of us want to see when looking out our windows, to unwavering eyes staring back at you with a couple of friends nearby. but that's exactly what happens. >> that was a little frightening because the only thing that was protecting me from the big cat was a glass. >> my book is called "the beast in the garden" because it's a book about a large animal that in ancient times or american history we would have called
beasts, the mountain lion, and what is really a garden, and that is boulder, colorado. a big part of what i'm trying to get across in my book is the artificiality of the american landscape, end of this boulder land. boulder is a beautiful seemingly natural place but in many ways it has been altered by humankind. when you get this wild animal coming into this artificial landscape, you actually can cause changes in the behavior of the animal. that's what we saw in boulder in the last 20 years is a change in mountain lion behavior as the lions have adapted to this human created lansky. that period i write about in my book is from the late 80s to the early 90s and that was really special time in boulder in the history of mountain lions. until that time there really were no lions in this area. they historically were here but back in the late 1800s and
early 1900s there was a campaign to exterminate them. they were largely driven out of this area. they were found in small numbers and colorado but not so much in the boulder area. by the late '80s mountain lions came back and they came back to me very eco-conscious, animal loving community. at first people were thrilled to see these large, beautiful cats come onto our beautiful space. and where as 50, 100 you to go into a lion had showed up here it would've been shot to the ranchers here have no qualms about killing lions. boulder in the late '80s was thrilled to have lions. unfortunately, that cause problems because alliance, they weren't being hassled. in fact, they found boulder was a great place to live because it was lots of few. there were deer any open space, deer living in town. alliance get used to living here, and they i believe and the site is that i -- believe the
lions in essence behaves -- change their behavior. they were welcomed in. that caused, in some cases were quite scary and and one that i write about in detail was fatal. one of the things i think is interesting about mountain lions here in boulder is that the conflicts we're seeing is not be just as affect we've moved to where the lines on her but we are in essence during the in two where we are. a number of things that are going on. first of all a mountain lions favorite food is venison. they eat about one thing for a week. the majority of the guide around here is mule deer. this beautiful open space you see when this was created back in the late 1800s, boulder has found itself in open space
largely that's been purchased since the 1960s, that open space area what turned from ranchland into ms is a wildlife refuge can we saw the deer population go up. then you living on the outskirts of this beautiful lush city where we of irrigated gardens and lawns, the city attracted 50 or so we had a deer herd living in downtown boulder. in the late '80s when the lions movement in the area they first were in open space under and they discovered there were deer intent. so the deer leeward alliance in town. then the lions discovered they could eat dogs and cats. some lions have made a habit of eating dogs and they started eating energy put in work their way up to black labradors and german shepherd's and doberman pinschers were being attacked back at that time. that's food for them, and so the
lions were learning and they have learned this is where they will find food. there is certainly food up there but there's lots to eat in town. so we are sending a message to them to come on in. there has been quite a few times when people and the lions have encountered each other. still the vast hundred people go hiking, they will never see a line. but it's quite likely that a lion has seen them. they watch us all the time. for the most part they have no interest in attacking people. but once in a while a lion gets it in his head that he personally like a potential threat. we have had some scary cases right around here just over my left shoulder, out there in flagstaff mountain. back about 10 years ago a seven year old boy was holding his father's hand at a trail can't write on the edge of the parking lot, very popular short trail.
a lion came out of the bushes, attacked the young boy, carried him off. thank goodness he survived. his jaw was broken, but otherwise he was okay. back in, around 1990, there was a 28 euros medical student in the foothills who was going for a jog. she encountered to lions. she knew what to do. she made herself look big, yelled at them. she threw rocks. the lions didn't go away. instead they pursued her up a tree. she stopped on the head of one of the lines and knocked it to the ground. the other came up after her. she broke off a dead branch, started jabbing at the line until it back down. she, i interviewed her. in the book, she was convinced she was going to die. she was traumatized by the event but she survived. but the central star in my book and the most tragic was the death of a young man, scott
lancaster, 18, a senior in high school, went to high school in idaho springs which is about 25 miles from your up that way. and he was a very athletic young man. he was training with an olympic cycling coach, and every day after lunch he would go for a jog behind the high school. one day in january of 1991 he went out and he didn't come back. a search party was sent out and it took two days before they found his body. at first they thought that he'd been the victim of some grisly murder, but then they discovered that there was a mountain lion guarding his body. the line was killed and the forensic evidence showed conclusively that the line had killed him, had consumed him, had treated him as if he were a deer. met was a wakeup call for boulder, for colorado and, frankly, for the whole western united states.
because until scott lancaster's death in 1991, mountain lions were considered virtually harmless. they were thought to be, first of all a wilderness species that could live anywhere near where people lived. they were thought to be largely nocturnal, and it was thought the route over time they would attack the person was if the line was sick or starving or rabbit or if it was a young child, very easy prey. this went against all of that. because you had a healthy 18 year old young man right behind his high school in the middle of the day killed by what turned out to be a perfectly healthy lion. and i believe that what happened to scott lancaster was directly related to what was happening in boulder in those two years immediately prior to his death, that the line that killed them probably have learned not to fear people, had learned that there's food for human habitation, and was primed on
that day not to run when it saw a person but to attack. and that was the event that really did change the way while the agencies across the united states view outlines but they're much more likely today to see warning signs at trailheads, advice on what to do. unfortunately, scott lancaster said that, while it was the first time in more than 100 years that an adult had been killed by a mountain lion, except for one person was killed by a rabid line in 1909 in california, scott is the first adult in all of north america that we know to be killed by a healthy lion. and since then, you know, it's still very rare but about once every other year somewhere in the western united states or canada we have another fatal attack. so people are more cautious. i don't mean to scare people. colorado has far more significant risks, a lot more
people died skiing or certainly riding their bikes, a lot more people drown. they're caught in avalanche is a lot of terrible things that can happen here in colorado. mountain lions are pretty low on the list, but it's not as you. and a place like boulder were would've lions living living directly with people is something i think as a community we need to be smart about. boulder still loves having clients around injured. talk to most, they are thrilled to live in a place that has is great, large carnivores. but if a line is getting to control and down, if a line he's eating people's dogs, if a line is showing itself in the know of the day in town, a ranger will be called out. the first thing is it will be scared off. it will be shot in the rear end with rubber buckshot, with bean bags to tell it go away, you're not welcome here. if the line keeps coming back it will be euthanized. it would be killed. we haven't come back to the old
days of killed every lion and hope we never go back to that, but we also are not doing what we did 20 years ago which was just bring them on in and leave them alone. today i think boulder is time to strike a balance between preserving the line but also maintaining a balance. striking about the comes to wildlife conflict is never easy. it's something that has led me to write the book. before i wrote the book i was an environment correspondent for npr, and when i first took the job i figured that out be doing a lot of study of the wild animals, specifically about endangered species, animals dwindling in the face of human development. i did stores like that but was surprising was the number of stories i was doing, back in the 1990s, about just the opposite, about animals becoming passionate moving into human habitat because of the protections we have for so when wildlife. protected open space like in boulder. what i saw the stories i was
doing about beavers in massachusetts and grizzly bears in montana and deer in new england was the same dynamic the korean. you have polarized communities, these two warring camps. one camp saying okay, we are too many beavers. they are damning our streams and flooding our backyard. we have too many deer causing car accidents. it's time we start hunting them and move them out. and you have an opposite camp saying this isn't an animal problem. it's a people problem. we moved into her the animals are and we should leave these pitiful creatures alone. what i saw happening time and again with these communities in stalemate with each side shouting at each other, and that's a big part of what led me to write the book was that what happened here in boulder with mountain lions i think is indicative of what's happened with many species including deer, raccoons and coyotes. that there's a lot of species
that have learned to live with us, have been moving into our communities at the same to our communities are moving to where they are. if we're ever going to solve these complex, i think we have to get away from the polarization and realize it is a people problem and an animal problem. if they're going to solve these problems we have to do with those issues. we have to get people to change their behavior so we don't encourage animals to cause problems force and i think it means managing the animals as well, particularly those individuals that may pose a threat to his. a lot of people after reading my book tell me they become paranoid about mountain lions. i don't want to scare people unduly. i do want to make it so that you won't go hiking. if -- our mountain lions should i go hiking all the time. i don't go by myself. i take a friend with me. but i don't worry that much
about encountering a mountain lion. against the risk is very low. however, i think there's a danger in seeing them just as cute, harmless animals. and that's what i was really trying to work against it when i started to write the book, this is not going back 15 years ago, there really wasn't that much attention being paid to mountain lions. and when i would interview people for some of my reporting for npr, people were i interviewed a couple put them online in colorado that was in the yard and they just walked out there and they took pictures and oh, what a beautiful cat. i think you should be more scared than that. i think that a little bit of fear is a good thing. a little bit of fear brings respect to a little bit of fear says it's not okay to have a line hanging out in your yard, and getting so comfortable that, in fact, it could become a threat down the line. so am i trying to scare people?
a little bit. a little bit so we respect these animals, and what a generator from for a few weeks after they read the book they don't want to go hiking. but then over time to get comfortable hiking again, and that's why things we want to be, being aware you're in their territory, taking reasonable precautions but not being so afraid that you will enjoy this beautiful landscape. >> while visiting boulder, colorado, with the help of our local cable partner, comcast, we spoke with barbara cole, author of chief left hand which examines the life of this arapaho chief. >> chief left hand was one of the leaders of the arapaho indians in the mid-1800s to the arapaho to one of the plains indian tribes that lived here in colorado on the plains of colorado and, in fact, the plains of colorado belong to the upper outpost and the cheyenne's. so chief left hand was one of the great leaders of the arapaho's and what made him
great was, there were two things that made them great. one, he was a piece chief. we have a lot about the work she's. we know all about the worksheets, a great chief to lead the warriors, thundering across the plains fighting the enemy. you don't hear much about the piece chief. there were peace chiefs who work very, very hard to try to bring all the newcomers who are coming onto the planes fly on to india land and the tribes together. and to find a way of these different people different cultures could live together. chief left hand was one of those really great piece leaders. he was also fluent in english or this was highly unusual in the 1800s for any plains indian to be fluent in english, or in any other language other than the language which the into this boat. each tribe had its own language that the common language on the plains was the sign language. so everybody communicated with
sign. nobody had to learn anybody else's language and who was this man who was fluent in english. and i am a writer. i set out to answer the question that i wanted answered, that was how did he become fluent in english? i thought i would write a magazine article on them. i ended up writing a book, a biography of him. i found out that when he was young, a white trader married his sister and started living with the village. and took left and them probably maybe 10, 11 and some pluck that, took him under his wing and taught in english. that he was fluent in english. so when the gold rush occurred and you had hoard hordes and hof people, across the plains, just destroying indian land, running off the buffalo, slaughtering the buffalo, taking charge of the indian land, when that
happened who is the man who's going to rise up and try to make peace with these people, try to figure out somewhere where these newcomers and his people and the cheyenne people could all work and live together and that was chief left hand because he could speak their language. his tactic was to get to know the people, the white people. most of them were white. later on, there were a lot of spanish people and people from mexico, but the hordes of people, the gold rushers who came out and stayed who planted themselves down on indian land. those people were from the eastern states and most of them, they were of european dissent. so they would come out and the iraq pose, they looked at all these people -- iraq oppose -- all the way people whole world had come to the plains. they said there can't be any more than this. so here they are and here's left hand and what's he going to do? he can talk to these people. he can speak their language.
he is firmly within. is brother-in-law was a white man who married his sister and live with the people. so he wasn't put off by them. he could get along with them. he lived, he liked very much to spend the winters and boulder so he would bring his village to boulder in the winter, and he would go around and get to know these new settlers and talk to them. he would spend time on the ranges with them, and talking over what was going on the conflicts that were occurring and asking their advice, what should he do. you know, what can we do not we can all get along out fear? this is big, big land. why can't we all get along? he went and met with the territorial governor, governor john evans. he met with military authorities, talk to them. the actually, the rocky mountain news ran an article that was very derogatory towards the arapahoes. he went down to the rocky
mountain news office which was in denver and went to see the editor and demanded a retraction. they didn't call it a retraction and then but basically he said, this is not what happened. what you wrote is not true. we want you to write the truth. he couldn't read. there's evidence he ever learn to read english, but he knew someone at the people who spoke english, the english-speaking people, that somebody told him what the rocky mountain news had written, obviously. he went out and got them to change it. one time he took his warriors, several of his warriors, and he went to the theater in denver, the apollo theater which is, first street in denver. he went to a play. so after the play was over he jumped up on the stage and he gave a talk. it was reported. there was a reporter from the rocky mountain news and the
reporter said he gave a very good talk. and he said you come here looking for gold, then take your gold and go home. but that was going to happen to making are looking for gold and they decide they're going to stay because they could find more gold. he would do that. he tried to reach out to people. that's what he did and try to reach out to the authorities. and always sang we want peace with you. we don't want to fight you. how could they fight 150,000 people, armed to the teeth, you know? he said we want peace. we want to be able to live here. we want to live side-by-side. that was always his agenda. that's what he really worked for. he made a very sad mistake of believing what the white authorities told him. and, of course, they lied to him, and they lied to the of the peace chiefs such as black cattle and white antelope who are too shy and peace chiefs,
and they're all working together. left hand was more outstanding because he could speak english. so he can translate what the other chiefs want to tell the white authorities. he can tell them. so they understand under no uncertain terms. so that gives you an idea of who he was and what he was doing. and he worked very, very hard and he gave his life. he gave his life in the quest for peace out here on the plains. and he died at sand creek at the sand creek massacre, which occurred on november 29, 1864, in southeastern colorado. we are memorializing it this year, the 150th anniversary of the sand creek massacre of the cheyenne and the arapahoe indians. this game about after the authorities in denver told the peace chiefs, left hand and at this, take your people, go down to sand creek and weight, and we
will make an agreement -- and weight. we will make a treaty with you. so they did. they went out and they gathered their people and brought them to sand creek. left hand didn't think, he believed these people and he got his village, he brought them down to sand creek. the cheyenne canyon. they were more cheyenne and arapahoe's. it was only left hand's band that was there because the rest hadn't gotten there yet. they were on the way. they hadn't gotten there yet, what governor evans was tracking them. he knew exactly where they were going. he knew when they came into sand creek, and he says colonel john chivington who was the military had out here in colorado, and they marched down to sand creek and attacked the village, a sleeping village at dawn, on november 29, and just slaughtered a lot of the people.
most of the people they killed were the women and children in the old people. and left hand was mortally wounded at sand creek, and he died just a few days later. so he gave his life believing in peace, believing it was going to be some agreement that was going to be made, and that is people would be able to let her on the plains and have a place to live. they knew they weren't going to have the whole plains like they had before to rome and to move their villages and hunt of law. they knew that. the buffalo were diminishing as more and more newcomers came here. so they knew they were going to have that but they kept asking for a reserved area that would be there's where they live in peace. that's where the term reservation comes from. it's a reserved area of their own land where they could live in safety.
and that's what he was hoping for and what he worked for and that's what did that come about. my book chief left hand was published in 1981. has never gone out of print. i think that as time has gone by and more more people have gotten interested in left hand and wanted to know about his life and what happened to them, that has just driven the interest in my book. so when i wrote the book i just became obsessed with this topic. i wanted to know who these people were who have lived on the plains before my family came after, and i'm a fourth generation coloradan, so one can who are the people who were here before and after the live in where do they live and what became of them? and then i found that convoy, one of their leaders, is peace chiefs, was fluent in english. so i thought, okay, i've got to write about this guy. so i just became obsessed with the whole subject, and at the
time i spent five years researching and writing the book. and at the time everyone said to me, what are you doing? you know, other writers, historians even, lots of people would say why are you writing about this? it wasn't that great of an interest at that time in the late 70s. and in 1981 when the book came out, there just wasn't that great of interest in the indian people and in the chiefs. today, there is much more of an interest in their have been wonderful books written about the various indian chiefs, crazy horse and red cloud, sitting bold and different ones that we know about it so i just think as time has gone by people have become more aware that we are not the first people who were here on the plains, that there was a whole other culture that lived here. i think there's more of an interest so who were the? and i think more of the same
questions, like the questions i asked, you know, where are they and what became of them? and the whole idea of peace chiefs, that was really new. nobody ever thought that there were indian chiefs out here who are trying to make peace. we always from hollywood, thank you, hollywood, he always thought they were warriors are trying to make more. but, in fact, there were these peace chiefs. i think a lot of things, it just took time for something to finally come together and for the interest to develop. but certainly he is very well known today, and i'm happy. i'm happy. i think he should be well known. he should be applauded and he should be honored for the life in the lead, for what he did. >> up next we take a tour of boulders juniper books which creates custom book collections and libraries as way to encourage people to keep books in their home.
booktv visited the store with help of our cable partner, comcast. >> it's to make books and levers the customers want to keep and enjoy for the whole life. so what we did a bunch of different things with books from making book covers for book fans from jane austin to ernest hemingway. we also generate entire libraries and the work with clients to fill their whole entire home with books that they would pick up if it unlimited amounts of time. we might generate books for the kitchen and cook books for the kitchen, art books for the living room, and really make it books as beautiful, make it look like and fit in as much as they are great books to begin with a great content there i started off as a hobby, starts windows on unit about 13 years ago. i got a few requests over the
years, people who want me to help them build a book collection. so i start doing that and the requests are always different and i start one if there was a business, and over the years the project has gotten more and more decorative as well as more obligated. i was to do everything from a set of rare charles dickens books through entire house full of pink books. i'm not sure there's one typical client. they really very. there's people who want to decorate their homes, fill their shelves with beautiful books. they might spend a couple years remodeling a house, repainting walls, picking out carpet, upholstery. penny get to the bookshelf and realize the books that were used have don't fit in anymore. so we would like to make things look like they belong but with the want of control over nonfiction and civil war books for my husband. i want literary agnostics. we will work with the clients in getting the books they want and have been delivered and make them look like they want to.
this is our showroom from the office in boulder. try to keep one set of everything. it includes all the specific book fest we made, new products ago set of russian literature, game of thrones set, although it over to our american flag set in the middle, a collection of american literature in history. there is cookbooks that we have made, cooking classics and these make great gifts for people, wedding gifts or housewarming gifts. on the right we have a lot of kids book. so this isn't a ride a five year old and an eight year old, they love to read and to love to bring up a whole bunch of different editions of classics and books they like to read. we recently introduced this water resistant paper. so these are great keeping in kids rooms. keep the books nice and beautiful but they're also great
books. this bizarre graphic design area. so all the book jacket designs we just let that get created here and we put most of them in house. our team is about six people right now. the staff is comprised of people handling shipping and orders, helping me pac all the books when they shipped out of the library. it often goes on multiple palettes. sort of a complex endeavor and has to be packed securely to be shipped around the world. also a lot of custom orders. will sometimes get a customer who says i want a set of art books. i want to put a photo of the bride and groom on. we will lay that out and we will get it approved and go ahead and print it and ship it to them. so this is our warehouse.
it's about 5000 square feet, and we keep stock of all the books that you saw in the front of there. so when a customer orders they can get it shipped out right away. it's not a customer order. if it's custom, i can do designs and we've made of various customizations and personal changes to the set to back it we try to keep a limited inventory of everything in addition to those sets. when a customer says i just spent three years building a house and i'm having a housewarming party next week, but my shelves are empty, we can put together a library for them. or just start the process of curating it. with everything from antique leather books like you see on this card, to cookbooks. sometimes customers want things bicolor as well as by subject. this is the beginning of a project like that were start gathering smart books and some
standardized books and were start to sort those and bicolor. but lay think that answer pretend like we're working with the customers and shelves so we know exactly how many books they should get. so this is the beginning of a project for a client who gave us a list of subjects they were in pashtun interest in which include history to america business leaders to jewish history to art books. and then he wants an image across all the shelves that makes up the brooklyn bridge. we got a photographer and took a photo he loved with super high resolution. he came back in a few weeks, entire wall with makeup that image that you see right there. they would all be books and that have the titles worked into the book title itself. a beautiful art installation as well as a great library. we put a lot of attention into detailed what we do.
we make sure it's perfect before it ships. with one project last summer for david hole golf course library. it took about 10 weeks to produce because it went across 900 books. we had to make sure lined up perfectly and when the ship we had to make sure that every book was coded and had the exact order to unpack it, like putting together a giant puzzle. i was probably one of my favorite projects. as far as people criticism of it being superficial or it's a shame that books have come to this, i've heard a lot of that over the years but i think people really look at what i do and combine a great book with great aesthetics and give people a reason to keep books on the shelves but it's much deeper than what people in which i think of when they see what we do. i also think an age of the book you have to give people a reason to own the printed book and to keep it on their shelves.
what i've seen over the years that i've been doing this is that the publisher, who've invested in making these cookbooks that people want to keep, or even great editions of literary, library of america, did you make the book better than it was before, and you make a durable and beautiful and sometimes wind at our value of putting the book jackets on top, i think people have a reason to add to the shelf. >> this weekend booktv is in boulder, colorado, with the help of our local cable partner, comcast. next we talk with melanie warner whose book "pandora's lunchbox" examines the increased consumption process food which she sees as a negative consequence. >> i think it's like most people. you think of food as something that comes from the ground,
something that a farmer was involved in producing. and that's still the way, we all think of farmers but a story that i think is important to really know about food is what happens after food leaves the farm and when it goes into the factories and labs, really before it reaches our plate. the title of my book is "pandora's lunchbox: how processed food took over the american meal" and it's an inside look at the processed food industry. my definition of processed food that i like to use is that if it's a good or a product that you could not make at home in your own kitchen, in theory anyway, not that you necessarily would, then it's a processed food. this applies to a lot of what we find in the middle aisle of the supermarkets and a lot of the things that appear on menus at chain restaurants. i started covering the food industry, almost a decade ago, and at the time i was coming into it as a business reporter.
i covered business for about seven years and i started covering this new business for me in the food industry, food and beverage. pretty soon right away i became fascinated by the things i was learning as i talk to people that are called food scientist. they are at the big large food manufacturers, they make the food in our grocery store and it goes to restaurants and then they are at food ingredient companies that make the ingredients that go into processed foods. i started talking to these people and i was curious about what food scientist do and i started going to trade shows and learning a little bit about their world and the way they think about food and what food is t too thin to it was very different from how i thought of food. the whole conception of what food is. and what we should do with food and how food is made in what food can become. i became infested with the amount of technology and science that's been applied to food over the last, actually been over the
last century but it's been particularly accelerated about the last four decades. so i started going to this one tradeshow in particular called institute of food technologists, and it's an annual show, one of the largest. i would go there and there's all these booths, these companies that sell ingredients that go into processed food and all of these booths and this huge convention floor, about 1500 companies displaying all their various products. a lot of them are completely foreign to me, these ends credible kind of beige and white powder. i go up and i would ask them what is this particular thing you are selling? what is this product? they would say this is something for a neat application from archie's application. this food was a type of software to be coded in put together. it's just that if we're thinking
about food. they take something known as food, something from the ground, something from a farm, an animal, and they dissected and disassemble it almost down to its like your components to create these ingredients that they've been reassembled or reengineering into a fully formed food or really food product that is sold to supermarkets. the processed food industry is taking foods, really for commodity ingredients or crops, soy, wheat, corn and milk, and take those foods apart like take milk and create milk protein concentrate out of it, all kinds of different milk powder that can be put back into food. or corn come to take and you make all kinds of different starches, modify the starches and all kinds of different ways. you create these starches and is very complex way that happen in
the factories. you make soybean oil out of it. you make so we protein concentrate. these are some of the building blocks of processed food. you can go into any supermarket a looks at products and you'll probably find one or more of those particular food ingredients in the food. so you're taking all of those ingredients that are very prevalent and you're putting them back together. mixing them with other things and making a food ingredient out of them. toaster strudels is a great example. you can look at a box of those are students can look at the ingredients and you almost can't find an actual real food ingredient. something that has not been completely broken down and highly processed, disassembled ingredient and added back together with a bunch of things and put together into this food called a toaster strudels. you also find on the intricate
list a lot of strange ingredients, preservatives, flavorings and things that you have no idea what they are and where they come from the only a food scientist or food company could tell you. the problem, the reason it's important for people to understand this and know about and the reason i wanted to write about it is because of what happened during those processes. one of the things can sometimes it's intentional, sometimes unintentional, is nutrition gets destroyed in the huge industrial manufacturing processes. uses vitamins, minerals, fiber, and accidents. when you take food or one of the things that happens is you lose all of his complex synergy of nutrition that is present in real food and fresh fruit when it comes off the farm or out of the ground. the first of processed foods started around the turn of the 20th century. you started with something like breakfast cereal. something think of the very basic today.
it was novel at the time, the thought you could get your breakfast out of the box and it was ready to go. you just poured milk on. those are some of the first convenient foods. at the time they were an incredible novelty. they were exciting for people, and enjoy things like processed cheese that started around 1915, and it just was a gradual, graduate, things that people had in the home in the pantry in addition to all the home-cooked meals they were making. it started accelerating after the second world war, and the food industry started ramping up and started marketing, buy the cake mixes, stop making someone dinners at home and buy frozen food and put them in the oven. it took a while but for the food industry was successful at this. they were not successful until women started going back to the workforce in droves.
and it's just been a slow, gradual increase ever since. is all real acceleration in the '80s at the fast food industry, really picked up steam. think of it now, the fast food industry really started in the '50s, and even in the '70s it was just a fraction of the number of mcdonald's and taco bell, kfc taco bell, kfc is, that th there are today. i think it's been a gradual infiltration of our cultural notion repeating, what eating is and where we should be. a lot of it was convenient. consumer product, buy our product because it's going to save you time, save you the hassle of cooking. although a lot of ads, i would back and look at a lot of these old ads that the food industry put out in the '70s and 80s, and there were a lot, the theme of the, some of the more fun and humorous and they were meant to be. the theme of the was, get out of the kitchen, it's a hassle to
go, don't bother. it's so much easier to eat our food. >> dinnertime, oh, dinnertime. too late to make a dessert. >> weight. it's not too late to make dessert. never too late anymore because now the jell-o family of famous desserts brings you new jell-o instant pudding. >> that message was a feeling. it still is because people are busy and it's easy to not have the cook in the kitchen, and some people think the cooking as a hassle and they perceive it that way. in part because that's the message the food industry has been delivered to their big salvage was really convenience and then also taste. that kind of sells itself, when people taste processed food is designed to taste amazing and alluring. a ramp it up with lots of salt
and sugar which triggers our taste buds and fires iran's in our brains. -- neurons. they sell like coke and pepsi and soda, all those commercials, gatorade. gatorade. they make us who might it's, especially for kids. anything with kids or teenagers has a big fun aspect to the processed food industry is roughly in use, just in the u.s., roughly $1 billion industry. an incredible amount of volume of products being sold. ..
people need to take steps to clean about who's making their food and who is angeles outsourcing some of their food preparation to because these are companies which is not to say that they are evil or have horrible intentions were the people are malicious or trying to make anyone sick but they need to continually increase sales and profits and the way to do this is to sell more processed food and a lot of the junk stuff. the average american is eating 70% of their calories from processed food.
those obvious ramifications in terms of health is obesity but then there's all kinds of other in diabetes that goes along with type two diabetes and that is primarily coming from the abundance of sugar and white flour that is in processed food that has all sorts of metabolic havoc when we consume those ingredients in excess but there's other kind of diseases linked to the diet and other aspects of our lifestyle so it's hard to tease it out sometimes but there is a lot of evidence that when people do cut back on processed food or give it up entirely then cutting back the huge benefit their health problems cleared up. everything from skin problems to headaches to gastrointestinal issues, constipation, all kinds of things. there is a concern for all of
these additives that are never meant to be consumed by human beings and there that is a staggering number of these additives and no one knows how they are going in. it is extremely porous and there are a number of things to be concerned about in our defense to be made for removing a number of these from the food supply. there are things i look for packaging. if i see it i don't buy it. dha is classified as a possible carcinogen by the government it's still allowed to be added and you still find it in food. another chemical that is used is inbred as an oxidizing agent gives the bread a nice texture. that's something that's used primarily in the plastic industry.
it's really not something it's probably a carcinogen subject to high temperatures such as bread making and other manufacturing processes so that's something to a void on the label as well. i could go on but it's something to be concerned about and the general rule of thumb is not to consume anything that you really don't know where it's coming from or what it is. look at products, read the ingredients and look for things that have ingredients you recognize or you could have some sense of what this is. a lot of people think that eating well is the luxury of the rich that you have to have a lot of money to eat healthy and you hear this in processed the processed food industry now in those particular words that they will basically say for people to eat on a budget they have to have processed food and it is unrealistic to eat fresh food if
you have limited means that when you look at it if you go into the supermarket provided that you have a supermarket in your neighborhood most people do, you can find an incredible number of things that are actually the fresh version is cheaper than the processed version and one example of that is for instant chicken. you go to the meat section and the chicken breast are less expensive good frozen processed stuff. so there's an incredible number of ways to eat healthy by shopping at the supermarket looking for the right things is a little bit of an educational issue he told me to know what to look for and how to prepare it at home. i see the tide shifting where people are starting to think
more skeptically. where did this really come from? there is a lot more skepticism and critical thinking but i think that it is a strong build and a lot of people are starting to open their eyes a little bit more, but there's a lot more work to be done and there are certain areas of the country people are a bit slower to think critically about the food industry and the food they are eating and a lot of people it can be difficult because it can be -- it does require additional effort if you are busy trying to make ends meet and to have erratic work schedules it is a huge challenge and it's a challenge for people in the food movement is to try to enrich people and make them understand how much better their life would
be if they made simple changes to their dying at how they diet how they would feel better on a day-to-day basis, their kids health would improve, and they would just have a high quality of life by making even some small changes. >> this weekend booktv is in boulder colorado with our cable partner comcast. thanks to sit down next we sit down with author thomas andrews whose book telling for coal and america's deadliest labor war takes a look at the 1914 massacre during which members of the united mine workers employed by the rockefeller family engaged in a battle that left 19 dead. >> for me what is important to massacre isn't an opportunity to think about just how important the labor movement has been in
eric in history, and to think about the sacrifices that the previous generations of american workers have made. the massacre was a violent conflict between striking the coal miners under the united mine workers of america and the state militia. happened in april 1914, and about 20 people were killed on that day. 18 of them were strikers and there was one bystander and one militiamen killed that day. by the early 19 hundreds was dominated by three companies but the biggest was the fuel iron that started as a colorado company that the rockefeller family became the majority shareholder and that was during the course of an earlier violence nasty streak that lasted from 1993 to 1994. so it was one of the 20
industrial firms in the united states. a massive company. at the dozens of coal mines and operated the largest steel mills west of the mississippi river and it was an enormous company. it was intent on controlling its workers and one of the main ways that try to control this through the company town system. they learned that it was an effective way to suppress labor militancy which was the main reason in the united states so when the strike begins most of the coal miners in colorado by that point lived in the company towns and one of the consequences is that if you went on strike you would be evicted in short order so it begins in september and was instantly
there are upwards of 10,000 homebuyers with 50 or 60,000 out of their homes so the union planned to set up the colonies and one of them that would become the center of conflict was out of a little junction town where all there was was a railroad depot and most of the people that lived in this colony were evicted from the housing and the canons and then a refugee camp of sorts but with a purpose so they were on that stretch of ground because from that position they could try to stop the company from importing workers to replace them in the lions into the new the companies could get streak breakers into the minds cost would be lost. there were two important
consequences that would have important implications for the massacre. the first of these is that because of the shooting was that was so common by october of 1913 many decided they should build cellars under their tents in part if this is that they were digging for the winter so the soldiers were to store food and do things americans typically do but now they are supposed to be defensive structures. they were afraid to gun battles with breakout and they wanted to have a place where women and children in particular could be safeguarded. the other important consequence of the shooting end of the violence is the state militia was called out so at the behest of local law-enforcement officials to governors and the state militia and at this point
they had a very bad reputation among the labor movement. the militia has been used repeatedly in the coal mining regions and also in the gold and silver areas so they didn't have a good reputation among the working people of color but this was a democratic administration that had been elected with heavy support so they decided to cut them some slack. they were welcomed by both strikers and they believed that they would come and be a peacemaking force peacekeeping force. they have 1200 of them and they had a parade for the state militia which was a sort of tragedy that would become apparent six months later. the militia changes its
character over the winter. two things happened. first is that most of the militiamen that have been at the national guard at the beginning of the strike mustered out on the 90 day tours of duty and this was a really unpleasant job and the farm boys and clerks and so forth who had been in the militia at the beginning of the strike didn't want to reenlist so it becomes populated by the men who worked as funds into the editing that starts happening is the colorado head of the treasurer who was sympathetic to the movement of this trusted the militia and he thought he could trust him if he refused to pay their bills and the irony of this is what the militia deities went to the coal operators and they operated a set of meetings with the other large industrial
sentiment with the bankers and the railroad companies and coal mine operators and essentially the capitalists start funding the state militia so by the spring of 1914 is populated mostly by the former minority having its bills paid by the large industrial interests of the state. as tensions mount over the winter. there is a series of more violence, more controversy. mother jones gets arrested. it's a nasty strike from beginning to end. and in early april it looks like things were getting better. the governor felt like things were improving and he withdrew the militia from from southern colorado and again it's one of those actions that seemed like a good thing that would have tragic consequences because the militiamen who remained in southern colorado became more and more paranoid and felt less
safe than they had before. what happened on april 20 in the massacre is still a little tough to piece together. it's a polarized world with different perceptions of what happened. most of the evidence suggests that there have been a lot of trash talking on the day before and both militia men and strikers believed that their opponents were getting ready to start something and both groups were ready to go. they were fearing for their lives. on the morning of april 20, the head of the militia ordered one of the strike leaders who was
referred to as the captain of the colony, the local militia commander orders him to come in and there's a woman looking for her husband claiming that her husband was being held by the strikers against his will and this minor incident would set the stage for the violence that happened later on. it's impossible to tell at this point who shot first but gunfire began and both sides were ready for a fight and be believed that the other, that their opponent was about to try to wipe them away. so the fighting got very heated to very quickly. the next stage of the fighting is that strikers try to save the
colony so they used the sellers that they had dug the previous winter and most were put underground for their own protection and then the male strikers tried to divert the militia fire away from the colony so they tried to get out of there and went into the july creek bed and tried to get the militiamen to start shooting at the colony. the problem with the strategy is the militiamen now have the colony after that his disposal. so the militia takeover of the colony and under very suspicious circumstances the colony caught on fire. it's a little tough to say how it caught on fire. this is one of the many things that remains controversial about the massacre. the strikers would accuse them of deliberately setting the tents on fire and the militiamen
would say they are using exploding bullets. i think that the militiamen may well have sent the tents on fire. as the colony burned, some of them burned very harshly and above one seller in particular there was a silver that was being used as an infirmary and the people were mostly very young children and women and about this particular seller of the fire burned so hot that it began to suck the oxygen out of the cellar and most of the people, not all of them but most of them worked 68 it. a few people made it out alive but it was really this event. something that was more unclear whether we call this the massacre today without that large amounts of killing in a particular seller.
as the day was ending the strikers throughout southern colorado learned what happened. they didn't quite get no but the body count was. people were saying 60 or 100. the body count would be clear for several days but they knew a lot of people were dead and throughout the region they uncashed weapons that they had been against the governor's orders. they had guns cached throughout southern colorado. they formed themselves into the small military brigade. they were better at small group small-group tactics in the state militia turned out to be.
this was a sort of guerrilla war that you can think of as a prize and by the time they laid down their arms ten days later when they sent federal send federal troops out because about 30 people and dynamited a couple of the mayans and the strike a couple of company towns into the targeting was deliberate. it was the place is the fourth most depressed in the the minds and the mines and the company towns. so the massacre in the lasting reverberations some cases in years for the sort of loose ends in the tragedy to play themselves out. to this day it is quite controversial. it's been the last few decades that people have been talking about it. and in a lot of ways, this is a
kind the kind of civil war in that kind of the state and people have that on both sides into and that these communities are very small type make -- tightknit communities and people often sort of have family members or friends on the other sides side said this continued to be a divisive history and it wasn't something people readily talked about in most of the former communities and fields. it was part of a series of struggles and violent conflicts by which american workers managed to achieve significant gains. they were in a lot of ways defeats in the union. they played a small but important part of paving the way for the new deal labor relations and append the new deal policies
i think were responsible in a lot of ways for creating the american middle class. thanks to the labor movement, american workers by the mid-20 century were enjoying unprecedented standards of living and conditions improved significantly in the coal mining and a lot of other industries and i think at this point in the early 20th century the movement in the united states has gotten so small it is so besieged by the right to work movement and larger shifts in the economy it's easy for many people to forget just how important work and working people are to our democracy and our prosperity. >> we talk with the author of the beekeepers lament how one man helped save america. >> my name is john miller.
i keep honeybees. it's what i do. it's what i always do. my dad was committed to the -- was his dad was. it's what we do. >> he takes them between california and north dakota so he's a commercial beekeeper and sells honey and polarizes crops. i had no idea that it was so important to everybody's diet. when i started the project i just thought they were fuzzy and cute and made honey and i like sweet stuff so i always liked honey but quickly i learned that they actually pollinate one in every three bytes that we eat including stuff like cherries and berries and peaches. so we would be able to eat without them pollinating the crops but our diets diets would be a lot less interesting and a lot less fun for us.
the way modern agriculture works now you can't count on the local bees to pollinate the crops because there are miles of crops as far as the eye can see. you need a lot of bees and then it is a desert so they can't survive in that environment. the way modern agriculture works it requires these guys like the migratory beekeepers to get them out as quickly as possible afterwards. after words. i first met john miller in 2004. )-right-paren i met him, he was having a -- i think that he lost about half of his beans that year. at that time it didn't get a lot of attention. and then i followed him around and kept in touch with him and two years later in 2006, 2007 a beekeeper discovered that a bunch of his bees had gone
missing. the queen was still there and it was like a hopi colony accept all of the forgers have disappeared into this became known as colony collapse disorder which got a lot of media attention because it was mysterious. nobody knew what was causing it but realistically in reality honey bees have been dying for a while and it specialized in the early '90s when this nasty little mite arrived in the u.s. by the early '90s that blanketed the country and it's hard to keep them healthy without treating the mites. most of them the vast majority of the country have died off but both agreed cost they are putting medicine that aren't very good for the bees. in 2004 when he lost the bees he
assumed that it was a virus and then dying again in 2006 and 2007 and people started paying attention. but as colony collapse disorder but people tend to confuse the larger because of a number of things. the mites, nutrition that they are undergoing and moving all around the yard dying for lots of reasons and it was a specific event that happened in 2006 to 2009. right now they are hanging in there and they are getting paid more for their pollination work. the biggest sort of cash cow is on the pollination. they are reliant for an acre of all men's it's not pollinate it
it will produce about 40 pounds if it is pollinated by is pollinate at the plate for honeybees others will produce about a thousand so it is a huge profit center for the farmers right now so they are making lots of money and paying the beekeepers lots of money to bring them into pollinate the crops and right now the prices are high enough to sustain that. other produce doesn't pay as well. they go into apples and cherries and so if they can't keep their bees healthy and have to put so much money into restocking and growing their bees we could see the produce prices going up. it's not really happening right now but that's something we need to keep an eye on even though they are losing the numbers are about one third of the
population has been dying each year it's a little better this year but that isn't a number that is considered sustainable ten to 15% of losses. there are more and more backyard beekeepers these days and they are -- it has become quite popular with all of the sort of urban agriculture that's become more trendy and i think a lot of people have responded to what happened with all of the losses by getting hives in their yards and it's a wonderful development because these commercial beekeepers can't afford to lose all of their bees. they have tons of employees who depend on them. so they have to treat their bees and they have to feed them supplemental feed and all the
things that a lot of people -- they have to haul them around to pollinate crops. backyard beekeepers have the opportunity and they have the freedom to fail. they are just doing it for fun. so a lot of local backyard of the keepers experiment with genetics and getting the same bees. they are getting local bees and they are treating for the mites. they are not getting the sugar water. people are hoping that their experiments will filter up to the commercial environment if they can build stronger bees and find ways to take care of them without the industrial treatments and without hurting
the bees and ultimately build a stronger heard as well. >> the public is more aware because of things like the collapse disorder and of the 30% that are dying each year. one of the things i conclude in my book is that it may be one of the best things that happened to the honey bee because they were dying in large number season before the collapse hit and nobody knew about it. nobody knew how important they were and the beekeepers just have to suck it up and there wasn't a lot of money and research and now people are concerned and realize how important they are and they have the checkers to say give bees at
chance. booktv is on location at the university of north carolina chapel hill where we interviewed some professors were also offers. adjoining ours charles his most recent book is the missing martyrs why there are so few muslim terrorists. professor, you write in your book the bad news for americans are islamists and terrorists are out to get you. then you go on to say the good news is this, there are not very many of them.
>> that seems counterintuitive i think because counterterrorism is often in the news and we see the horrible attacks around the world and in the united states. of course on september 11, 2001 the worst in memory. the arrests here and there and being disrupted and a if you step back for a second and think what is the overall picture of the threat assessment for public safety in the united states and around the world there isn't nearly as much terrorism as we were afraid there might be in the weeks and months after. experts were telling us to expect the new normal that we would get a tax like this on a regular basis and we haven't. and in fact even though we don't want to dismiss this thread, i want to put it in perspective
and the book tries to do that. it tries to say how come we haven't seen more and what is the scale of the threat to public safety from terrorism versus other sorts of threats. >> how many terrorists are there in the world? >> i tried to estimate that based on the declassified documents and reports by the security professionals, and it appears there are fewer than 100,000 terrorists. that sounds like a huge number. that is a swarm of people out to get us but almost all of them are folks that were focused on their own country. what they want to do is make a revolution in their own country far away from here and basically in a handful of places where there's active revolutionary islamist movement. so more than 90% are no threat to americans here in the united
states. they are engaged in terrorism as a means to what they see as an effective revolutionary strategy but they won't be wandering to attack americans so these are places like afghanistan, pakistan, iraq. some parts of the region of western africa and a handful of other places where bubble of the revolutionary bible of the revolutionary islamists are using the terrorist methods are located. after 9/11 the fbi director went to congress and said he suspected that there were several hundred al qaeda militants in the united states can bring to an attack on the scale of 9/11.
it isn't anything near that. we have found a handful of al qaeda related to terrorists in the united states and most of them were not effective, they were hanging on and were really not ready for the big leap. we notice to the fbi informant in almost every case of the terrorist plot in the united states related to the revolutionaries abroad. if there were two or more people in the room one of them was an fbi informant. we have been very fortunate if that is the case. there have been attacks like the boston marathon bombing and cases where militants have gotten a hold of weapons and explosives and there've been fatalities and horrible injuries and i don't mean to minimize data to think in terms of the
threat of the public safety there have been 37 deaths that we can attribute to islamist terrorism in the united states since 9/11. added to that the 3,000 on 9/11 itself. over the same peer coder than 190,000 murders in the united states and we have over 12,000 a year so terrorism isn't a leading cause of death it is a miniscule portion of the murders that we see in the united states each year. obviously i'm not in favor of terrorism and i don't mean to minimize it in the context is not a it is not a threat to public safety. >> what about those that are overseas are they in any way a threat or should we be concerned
about them in general? make absolutely. the revolutionary movements of all sorts of threats, but more of a civil war, organized crime. there there's a number of threats many of them in the globalized world that affect america. things spread very quickly around the world. that wasn't the main threat overseas or here in the united states. >> what about the training camps? are they being set up in pakistan and afghanistan? >> yes. we know from all sorts of declassified evidence. i don't have access to the classified stuff, but the training camps exist. what's interesting is that since the us-led invasion of afghanistan in 2001, the size of
the campus tiny compared to what it was and the taliban regime in afghanistan. so at that time they had hundreds or thousands of people being trained, militants going to the campus and now the camps are very small and more isolated they are out in the desert sand and remote locations in west africa or somalia. if we look at the aftermath, the amount of terrorism has actually been lower since 9/11 than it was in the years before 9/11 according to the global
terrorism database and other sources to track these things. excluding the civil war so there's a handful that are very bloody. in afghanistan and iraq and pakistan. those have generated a huge number of casualties. it's probably thousands of people a year and that's where we see doubleclick to terrorism fatalities these days. outside of the civil war the numbers are considerably lower globally than before 9/11. the fatalities of terrorism. we are living in a much safer world than we did at any point. there are a few interesting floors and a civil wars now than in the previous decades.
there is tremendous misery going on but is that the world is looking at these days. looking at the content encoding from public health to political violence and to all sorts of things that i think that we should take some sort of a sense of pride and relaxation perhaps and turn down the volume on our anxiety when we look at how much we have accomplished in reducing violence in the world. >> professor, the reduction and here is another world is due to some of the measures that we took after 9/11? >> i think that has to be factored in some cases the heightened attention and scrutiny and the crackdown on the groups that were previously allowed to operate more or less with impunity almost every government in the world is now
against terror tourism in destroying to actively suppress the groups in the territory that wasn't necessarily the case before 9/11. all sorts of police actions and more incarcerations and legal treatments and people convicted of terrorism related crimes that's probably played into it. at the same time, most of what is going on here is that muslims and others are not interested. there just aren't that many arrests, there isn't that much of a difference in the legal treatments to account for the change in patterns in the terrorist activities. if you think about islamic terrorists into the revolutionaries who have a global spam like al qaeda and its affiliates and allies they think of themselves as having 1.5 billion constituents. every muslim in the world appealing in their paper documents into public pronouncements. that is a lot of potential.
but most of those folks have no interest whatsoever either in what al qaeda and the other groups are selling in the islamic state or in the means that they are proposing to get to reach that goal. they are just not interested. if even 1% were open to that message, the message is out there on the internet. anybody can find it. the recipes into the tools are engaging in the act of violence are out there and anybody can get them. if even a fraction, tiny fraction of the worlds more than a billion muslims were interested we would see violence every day and everywhere, but we don't. we see it here and there. there can be horrible events if you lived there it is a terrible thing that today and overall the scope is appalling.
these are murderers. fortunately most people are not buying that message. so yes, law enforcement has had an impact and counterterrorism has probably had an impact, but the main heroes of the story are the folks saying that isn't for me. people living their ordinary lives. i think they deserve some credit for just being human to review gives credit to everybody think of goodness we are not all violent maniacs. if our support of israel still a big factor? >> how much is the the u.s. a focus? we are the global hegemon. we are the worlds most powerful world's most powerful country and we have an opinion and often, the military diplomatic say in every major dispute
around the world. so, we are going to get it attracted a disproportionate amount of attention from groups who are upset about the way that things are in the world and that is especially the case for the islamic militants who believe that we are at war with islam, that that is our goal of islam. the bulletin boards and pronouncements on youtube. of the muslims and non-muslims around the world who believe there is a truth to that but we are in the power that we are intervening places and have no business being that we are hostile to all sorts of alternatives to the political religious cultural beliefs.
to pick up the guns and do something violent in response they have a political opinion editors anti-americanism out there and a fair bit of it according to the survey. there's a fair bit of it in france and in a lot of countries where they are not generating terrorism. i think we need to separate those political views. people have a right to. you have a right to those political views from violent acts that you cannot have a right to engage in. very small number is engaging in the acts of nazi anti-americans that disagree with them and disagree with parts of what they think is.
it's a huge issue and it's a front page headline banner issue in the world. for americans, it is sort of a sideshow but it's a major era for many people around the world. what's interesting is you have your case of probably the world's only case of perfectly overlapping duplicate nationalisms. the two movements at their extremes. the palestinians and other movements claim all of palestine as they see it and similar movements and their movement show there is no palestine and
they claim all of palestine for israel. that is a difficult thing to solve. i'm not sure if an american president if one were to engage in debate on scene on and off about it ever solved that. but we were heavily on one side and seen as heavily on the other side of this conflict and yet that is a constant talking point for the islamic revolutionaries are out of the world. but also for all sorts of political movement as well. they are not islamic revolutionaries were engaged in terrorism. i don't see an easy way out of this politically it's very difficult in the united states for us to change sides even if the president or administration wanted to. this is just the world as it is and we are going to be living with this for some time. on the other end, i'm happy to be surprised and two take a back some of the dramatic developments that change the
situation. i've written a book on iran about the revolution in iran called the unthinkable revolution in iran and the revolution of the major political changes and of course uprising that are are inherently unpredictable. you really can't tell and they are unpredictable because the people making them didn't know they were going to succeed until they succeeded. those kind of changes happen constantly. everybody says how come we didn't see it coming? because you can't. these things are literally unpredictable. we will know them when they happen. so come if something happens that changes the course either of the israeli-palestinian interaction or changes the course of the dramatic event occurring in the islamic revolutionary movements i will come out and say that i was wrong. i was wrong. i didn't see it coming, i didn't predict it but then i would say i'm right because these things are unpredictable. >> charles, in the missing
markers you spend a bit of time critiquing bernard lewis. who is he implied that you could he can? >> bernard lewis for decades is perhaps the leading middle east specialist in the united states. an eminent figure, professor of princeton, author of many books including many bestsellers as well as academic books on the middle east. but he has a view of the middle east sort of an unchanging base where the abuse of people -- 30 years ago can explain what people think today. i don't see it that way. i think that there's been a huge break where before in the middle ages up to middle ages up to about a century and a half ago has very little to do with how people believe and engage today. the rise of the modern state has changed people's identities and their form of action and the scope of action.
people now are engaged in national movements into believing their national identities. not all of them but a huge portion and they didn't see that two centuries ago. islam has come to mean something very different than what they meant two centuries ago for the vast majority of muslims that means for many of them a return to the secret sources, not the traditions that their forefathers practiced. so you see all sorts of islamic authorities popping out of the woodwork. you can have somebody that is a civil engineer mike bin laden claimed to be an authority on islam. he was not a trained islamic scholar. he was a do-it-yourself scholar and yet he was accepted by a small portion but unfortunately a dangerous portion of the muslim community. popping up all over the new sorts of authorities and islam and a new sorts of action that's why i think that the medievalist who tells us what happened
cannot extrapolate what is going to be happening in 2014 or on any given year in the modern era. >> we are sitting here on the campus of the university of north carolina chapel hill. you open the missing markers with a story about mohammed. who is it? >> guest: he was a university here that graduated several years ago and was working at a local pizza place as a delivery person and as he was becoming more and more enamored in the islamic terrorism of the revolutionary upheaval he was muslim by background although not religious at all and in fact was raised in a shia muslim household whereas al qaeda and other islamic revolutionaries of that sort really dislike them
and feel they are not real muslims. he didn't have any sense of that and he wasn't trained so he was another do-it-yourself theologian. while he was delivering pizza he decided he wanted to engage in an act of terrorism to support peaceful as a revolutionary movement against u.s. imperialism in the war against islam. so he went to a store near here that also has a firing range and he tried out a number of handguns and he really likes one model and he said i will take it and he was going to use that he's had to go to the dining hall on campus at lunchtime and shoot up as many people as he could and kill as many people as he could. the dining hall i go to on a regular basis and by students would have been a horrible bloody tragedy.
so they said well you need according to the federal and north carolina law you have to get a permit, go to the county sheriff to get the permit city goes to the county sheriff and it says you need to have two character witnesses said that you are fit to have a handgun. he was such a loner by this point that he didn't even feel he could ask his roommates to sign for him and he gave up on that plan. he could have gone to any number of places online or the gun at a gun show or got one without a permit. of course there are tons of illegal guns. he gave up on that and we are lucky that he did. instead he rented a full meal -- four-wheel-drive gigot and drove him to campus a quarter mile from here, drove onto the campus, drove past the english building and the dining hall and
went to the center of the campus called the pit. it was early march just like this but it was a beautiful day unlike today and there are all sorts of people hanging around and having lunch and he stops for a moment according to the students that he saw. he gets to the central area, stocks and injuries as fast as he can to get people as they scatter out of the way. some of them went off the windshield and the bumpers and one went under a tire but fortunately he didn't kill anybody. we had broken bones but nobody was killed. we've are fortunate that again his incompetence or whatever, lack of foresight he picked a location that was symbolic.
it's a pretty sight but you wouldn't expect but it's also a very short area and he couldn't get that much speed going so he had to stop and turn and he didn't go as fast as he needed to in order to not kill people so he had nine injuries and drove off campus and then he had to decide and i going to give myself up, make a run for it or engage in another act of violence that you decides to give himself up in is over a pimp is over in a neighborhood and pulls out his cell phone with the car still running he calls 911 and we have the recording of that called. he says i just ran over they just ran over a bunch of people on the campus of chapel hill into the emergency person on the hill said what and keeps him on the phone and asks him to spend his last name until he is frustrated. he was trained to keep them on
the phone until the police arrived. he turned himself in and he's thrilled to have engage in this act and you can see him smiling in the photos. here's somebody that radicalized by himself here on the campus in the small town in to want to kill people. we know all of this in what to make you was playing on the stereo while he was engaged in this act because he wrote hundreds of pages of letters from jail to the local student newspaper if they were willing to share with me. and we have a very inside of you inside his head picture of how somebody radicalized his to the extent that people become just pawns. if you think now if now if all of the slightly off people who might go down the path of violence who are out there, driving a car on a sidewalk can be an act of terrorism if you
call it that, if you want it to be bad and yet it doesn't happen very often. it is that easy. so as terrible as that act was and showed us here in chapel hill, i think that we can also have a second response after the shock and dismay. we are pretty fortunate that more people don't have that perspective, that more people are not engaged in violence of the sort that we are and living generally in a peaceful society. and so folks that are out there saying muslims are all potential terrorists come, but they shouldn't be given religious freedoms to build houses of worship is like other people and they should be mistrusted and according to surveys there is a growing portion of the population that believes those hateful things, they just haven't really followed the news, not the news of the attacks but on the days when
there are no attacks. the big picture here is that there has not been nearly as much terror as him as we feared there would be. and that is good news. charles is a professor of sociology at the university of north carolina. his most recent book is the missing markers why there are so few muslim terrorists. this is book tv on c-span2.
a and his latest book, "a deadly wandering: a tale of tragedy and redemption in the age of attention" in its the new york times reporter tells the story of a tragic car accident due to texting from impact through the court proceeding. it combines the disturbing real-life story with a thorough examination of the distractions of technology and their impact on society. the program is about one hour. >> host: hello. i'm here today hosting "after words" with matt rectal, and congratulations on your new and very powerful book, a deadly wondering. i think it's a story about a crash and yet so much more. it's